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  • magic the gathering – How does “other than enchanted creature” (and ideally some broader category of effect phrases) use last known information?

    magic the gathering – How does “other than enchanted creature” (and ideally some broader category of effect phrases) use last known information?


    Suppose Player A’s Sporogenic Infection enters enchanting Player B’s Nine-Lives Familiar, and its ETB triggered ability is put onto the stack targeting Player B. Player B responds by casting Back to Nature, destroying Sporogenic Infection. When Sporgenic Infection’s ETB triggered ability resolves, can Player B sacrifice Nine-Lives Familiar?

    The best candidate for relevant rule seems to be…

    608.2h If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object’s last known information. See rule 113.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.

    I am unclear on the how to apply the phrase “requires information from a specific object.” In my own attempt to arrive at an answer, two distinctions arose…

    • About which object(s) does the effect require information? Does it look at the creature and view “being enchanted by Sporogenic Infection” as information about that creature? Does it look at the enchantment and view “enchanting Nine-Lives familiar” as information about that enchantment? Does it look at both the creature and the enchantment?

    • Does the phrase “other than enchanted creature” refer to whichever object(s) the effect ultimately looks at intensionally or extensionally, for example, in the case that the effect will look at just the creature, does the effect say “hey game, give me information about Nine-Lives Familiar” (intensional) or “hey game, give me information about the creature which has the property of being enchanted by Sporogenic Infection”?

    If the creature is the sole object of query, and if “other than enchanted creature” refers intensionally, then Nine-Lives Familiar is in the public zone it is expected to be in, thus its current information should be used, and as it is no longer enchanted by Sporogenic Infection, it should be legal for Player B to sacrifice Nine-Lives Familiar. If the creature is the sole object of query, but if instead “other than enchanted creature” refers extensionally, then the game will not find any creature which has the property of being enchanted by Sporogenic Infection, and will have to use last known information to find the creature which has that property, and thus it should be illegal for Player B to sacrifice Nine-Lives Familiar. By similar logic, if the enchantment is the object of focus, then regardless of the intensional VS extensional distinction, it should be illegal for Player B to sacrifice Nine-Lives Familiar. If both the creature and the enchantment are objects of query, then more explanation may be warranted.

    What is the right way to interpret and apply this rule? An ideal answer would obviously describe the mechanics which address the broadest category of phrases possible, but if such consistency is not to be found, then at least how does it apply to the phrase “other than enchanted creature” as in the above case?



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  • What do raiders attack if there are multiple targets in the same category?


    The rules for activating raiders say:

    When activated, each Cylon raider carries out only one of the
    actions listed below, taking only the first action that it is able
    to perform (in numerical priority, with “Attack a Viper” taking
    the highest priority and “Attack Galactica” taking the lowest)

    1. Attack a Viper:
      area. It attacks an unmanned viper if able; otherwise it attacks a piloted viper.
    2. If there are no vipers in its area, the Destroy Civilian Ship:
      raider destroys one civilian ship in its area. The current
      player chooses a civilian ship in the area and flips it over.
      The resources listed on its face are lost, and the token is
      removed from the game.
      …

    These rules leave ambiguous which ship is targeted within these categories. Which ship do raiders attack when there are multiple ships that can be targeted that are different? This can happen in two cases I’m aware of:

    1. There are multiple piloted vipers in the same space area (which matters for who gets sent to sickbay if there is a hit)
    2. There is an unpiloted viper and an unpiloted assault raptor in the same space area (the rules for assault raptors say they are treated as vipers, so these are both unpiloted vipers from a priority standpoint, and this matters in terms of difficulty to hit)



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